Francois Callen was the Chief Operating & Financial Officer of Depop, a global social shopping app, before becoming an advisor at Hofy, which brings global equipment to your teams quickly.

Yulia Pukhova is Chief Financial Officer at Veesion, a developer of intelligent video surveillance software to facilitate the detection of gestures associated with shoplifting. Before this role, she was the Vice President of Finance of PlayPlay, a video creation platform empowering marketing & comms teams to transform messages into engaging videos.

Jonathan Sarfati is the Group Chief Financial Officer at Freeland, who offer independent workers to help them make the best choices. Previously, he was working as a Chief Financial Officer for Stuart, Europe’s leading last-mile B2B delivery platform.

WHAT’S YOUR BACKGROUND IN FINANCE?

Francois: I started out in Audit when it was still seen as a ‘golden career path’, a bit like investment banking. At that time, having completed my Master in Corporate Finance, I saw audit as a chance to learn. I liked being analytical, breaking down problems into small boxes and doing things in sequence, which is what audit gave me. I worked for the likes of Deloitte and PwC, becoming a partner by the time I was 32 and was exposed to a lot of global customers and M&A cross-board transactions.

My years in Audit and Transaction Services were a good foundation and thinking platform for moving to an operational role, which I did after three years on my partner journey. I’d been doing a lot of transactional work but found my role becoming less interesting as the work of Audit and Transaction Services were increasingly separate. So, I took the opportunity to move into the start-up/scaleup world and get my hands on a company’s operating engine.

Yulia: Mine is a pretty standard background for a finance professional in that I started out in audit for the first six years of my career. I really enjoyed being part of something organised and structured with lots of legal updates and processes. I was fortunate to join a smaller audit firm, where I was exposed to a range of customers, from small non-profit organisations to larger, publicly-listed companies. I worked in diverse sectors, including aeroplane manufacturing, the automotive industry and tech. I even audited gold mines in Africa for three years. It was an adventure for a young finance professional, while also being a great ‘people’ adventure. I am a big believer in the fact that a person can make a difference and this has been reflected throughout my career, including where I am today as a leader of our finance team.

DOES THE MODERN CFO NEED DIFFERENT SKILLS TODAY THAN A DECADE OR SO AGO?

Francois: Navigating through uncertainty is one of the traits of the new breed of CFO as they work out how to anticipate the next big thing. This requires a lot of discipline. You need to be systematic in how you identify new and emerging risks but also opportunities. You don’t have to act on risks immediately but be ready with ‘what if’ scenarios if needed.

The role of CFO also depends on the company you’re working with. For example, if you’re the CFO at a publicly listed company, a large component will be talking to investors and managing the Street expectations. Whatever stage company you’re working for, you are truly the second voice of the company. So, you must deeply understand the business and not just the numbers. It’s not for everyone and, beyond being good at it, you need to enjoy doing it.

Yulia: I’ve learned that you need a diverse skillset and different levels of experience. On the one hand, you want someone in your team who has the experience to see the bigger picture, not just within the finance function but across the whole company. Then, on the other hand, while I’m not looking for risk takers, it’s good to balance that experience with less experienced people who perhaps have a greater willingness to take bold decisions. Sometimes it helps if you’ve got people who haven’t seen what it ‘should’ look like and are more interested in what makes logical sense in a given situation.

Jonathan: As a CFO, the skills I now need are totally different. For the first time in my career, I have to manage banks – when you’re a start-up and scaling you are not profitable, so by definition you are not that appealing to the banks! Now the banks are interested because I have cash, debt, and some acquisition projects on the cards. So, I’m no longer viewed as an outlaw but as someone they want to work with! I now have KPIs and balance sheets to track on a daily basis. In fact, when you’re in a buyout scenario, the balance sheet becomes your Bible, giving oversight into the working capital, debt, equity, etc.

HOW WILL NEW TECH HELP THE FINANCE TEAM TO DRIVE IMPACT?

Francois: New tools such as AI will see the analysis aspect of finance changing quickly. It will become relatively easy to interrogate the meta database to identify a certain dynamic or trend. Where it used to take a lot of effort to do this, with AI it will be quick and simple. So, it will be about how you act in light of the pace of change, rather than simply providing analysis. The accelerating pace of change in technology terms, with the rapid uptake of AI, is something nobody expected two years ago. There is something new for the CFO to consider every day, whether it’s as a result of new tech or the changing geopolitical landscape. The science and art of anticipation is more key than ever.

Yulia: It’s important that we use and test AI to draw conclusions. It may seem magical to many people but in reality, it is just mathematics. Your AI is as good as your statistics and your ability to learn from AI at every iteration. So, this brings me to my next career step. I am a huge fan of technology and how it can solve people’s problems. But, coming from an audit background, I’m also a big believer in processes and the fact that technology will only solve problems if you have robust processes. With the right processes in place, technology can get you working faster, smarter and more efficiently.

WHAT DOES SUCCESS LOOK LIKE FOR THE MODERN CFO?

Jonathan: While it depends on the role and on the company, for me a critical success factor is having a voice that counts – to be listened to by the Executive Committee, the shareholders, or the board. I’ve previously been in the position where the CEO listens first to the CTO, then the CMO, and finally, at some point in time, the CFO. But I feel that, especially at this time of inflation and path to profitability for almost all companies, it is important for the CFO to be in a position to speak and be heard.

Success for me is also about being an expert in the business. I’ve seen too many CFOs who sit in their ivory towers along with their soldiers (the accountants, analysts, etc.) but don’t really care about the product or the market, that’s not for me. That’s why, in the first two months of joining Freeland, I spent more than 50% of my time talking to the business and getting an understanding of the logic. This is important for a CFO’s success. Why? Because when someone does something in the business, it will eventually have an impact on finance or the books. So, it is important to know what is going on at every stage of the business value chain.

This is something I stress to the young recruits I work with. They need to understand that while the rudiments of what they do might be the same, every company is different, so their jobs and the way they do them will be very different. The same applies to the expectations of the ExCom, the board and the shareholders – each company expects different things from its finance team depending on what the company does and what life stage it’s at. So, look beyond your finance remit and specific tasks to learn all you can about the business.

HOW IMPORTANT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE CEO AND CFO?

Francois: Being a good CFO demands readiness. It’s about being ready at the right moment. A good CFO will have met the right people on their career journey and be willing to learn from them to make better decisions at the right time. I know I’ve made errors on my own career journey, but you learn from them to do things right the next time!

BEYOND SPECIFIC SKILLSETS, WHAT CHARACTER TRAITS AND TEAM PLAYERS DOES A MODERN CFO NEED?

Yulia: While embarking on a new venture might appear risky, most finance leaders are actually risk averse. We’re more concerned with how we protect against risk. For me, what really works in being part of a startup is always seeing it as a human adventure and I feel that with the right team you can go a long way.

I’ve learned that you need a diverse skillset and different levels of experience. On the one hand, you want someone in your team who has the experience to see the bigger picture, not just within the finance function but across the whole company. Then, on the other hand, while I’m not looking for risk takers, it’s good to balance that experience with less experienced people who perhaps have a greater willingness to take bold decisions. Sometimes it helps if you’ve got people who haven’t seen what it ‘should’ look like and are more interested in what makes logical sense in a given situation.

On that latter point, it is all too easy to over-complicate things in finance and, to paraphrase Leonardo da Vinci, the most complex task is to make things simple. So, for me, simplicity is one of my mantras. The idea that less is more applies to many scenarios in finance. For example, if you present people with less information, it can make finance facts and figures easier to understand. Or by having fewer processes to wade through, you can get to the point faster.

HOW HAS THE SWITCH IN FOCUS FROM GROWTH TO PROFITABILITY CHANGED THE MARKETS?

Francois: It’s easy with hindsight to say that we were all fooled by what was happening in the zero interest-rate market. We were all happy to be in that market, but it was like a pendulum that went too far. Now things are different. The market is polarised between two extremes. At one extreme, we have the consumer/B2C business, where raising money is so difficult because many investors were burnt. At the other extreme, the AI hype sees companies in the tech sector raising millions every day as AI projects gather pace.
The market has shifted in the past twelve months driven by the US equity market becoming more bullish. This has an effect on VC appetite, especially in the AI space. In between the two extremes I’ve described, new B2B and SaaS businesses are leveraging some elements of AI to challenge incumbents. , I expect to see a lot of incumbent businesses being challenged but, in reality, if you don’t have a proprietary distribution platform it’s very difficult. I’m interested to see how all of this unfolds and how the market self regulates as the use cases for AI become more established.

WILL FINANCE PROFESSIONALS NEED DIFFERENT SKILLS AS AI BECOMES MORE PREVALENT?

Yulia: I think we’ve already seen a big shift in terms of skills taking place over the past decade. Our role is much more of an IT project manager that it was 10 years ago. In fact, around half of my time at work over this period has been IT-project oriented. Looking ahead, with more AI and the way solutions are being structured, we’ll need many more data analyst skills. All the tech leaders, like the CEO of Nvidia, are saying our kids should be data analysts! And with AI being only as good as the data, you can see why people are saying data could be the weak link. So, you need to make sure it is accurate, exhaustive, and that nothing is missing, because if it’s not there, your foundations are wrong.

As we create more and more data in our business operations, education and training in data management will be key for finance professionals. It’s not just about buying an AI and thinking it’s some magical solution. If the data is not accurate, the results won’t be accurate. Nothing will work correctly if the basis and the data and the process around creating aren’t right. Because data is not fixed. In addition to this, it will evolve over time. So, for me, the key new skillset for finance professionals is all around data and its management.

DO YOU BELIEVE NEW SKILLS WILL BE NEEDED AS THE USE OF AI GROWS?

Francois: AI will shape how we do business in future, but we still need to find the right use cases. This platform shift is still in full motion and it is difficult to assess where it will land. I am interested to see how new use cases will materialise, for example what impact will AI have on how we manage talent? Those who are curious will embrace the change, rather than fight it and it will be transformational in finance as people are freed up to be more analytical and creative.

DO YOU HAVE ANY FINAL WORDS OF ADVICE FOR SOMEONE BUILDING A START-UP FINANCE TEAM?

Yulia: There are three ingredients of success: people, process, technology. See it as a people adventure. Get the right people with the right balance between experience and the non-experienced with the right attitude. Any one person can make a difference. So, hiring the right person is key because your team is only as strong as your weakest link is. As a young finance leader, I made some hiring mistakes which cost me so much in energy. But we learn by making mistakes.

With sound processes guiding you, be open to new technologies and test them a little bit at a time – we would say ‘with parsimony’ in France. Each new technology ingredient is a bit like adding spices to your recipe, which you then adjust as you see how it works. This also keeps your people motivated as it makes things a little more exciting in their day-to-day work. Enjoy the adventure.

IS THERE A TIP YOU’D LIKE TO SHARE ABOUT THE ROLE OF CFO?

Jonathan: As an executive, before being a CFO, I am first and foremost a manager. So, the happiness of my team is another aspect of how successful I am. I am responsible for creating a good team spirit and ensuring everyone can develop. Managing people’s ups and downs is a daily part of what I do. I’m here to create trajectories; to create success stories. That’s what a good CFO does.